View Full Version : New skills/ultimate discusion thread.


Left Nut
04-28-2007, 06:17 PM
The first part is just copy pasted from all the various places followed by replies by Smokey and myself to get things started.

Ultimates:

Totem of healing- .Yea I know I had this idea for items too but hey it's an idea:) 50 hp self heal normal ultimate timer.

Drunken curse(reworked from kevin)- 90 percent chance of you getting your target drunk for 5 seconds and a 10 percent chance of it backfiring. No resist. I dont really know what effect drunk is so it could be longer or shorter and I thought the chance of backfiring would be funny but I'm not married to it.

Sleeping powder- This is'nt a new idea as they have something similar in I think wc3x. But how it works is you can put your target to sleep for 5 seconds and it switches their weapon to knife. The person asleep cant take damage during the 5 seconds but they do have the disavantage of starting the fight with a knife out when it ends.

Spell of confusion-Makes you switch to a random weapon.

Pillar of fire- Does 50 damage to the target minus what ever fire resist and does'nt set them on fire.

Smite- Calls down lightning doing 20 damage and reducing your speed to a crawl for 4 seconds.

Cloud of pestilence- Summons a cloud of pestilence doing 20 damage and slowing your speed to a crawl for 4 seconds.

Soul of the coward- Enables you to absorb the soul of a coward for 6 seconds increasing your run speed by 30 percent during that time.

Soul of the theif- Enables you to absorb the soul of a master theif for complete invisibility for 3 seconds.

Skills:

Totem of healing- No I dont think there should be an unltimate AND a skill of it just covering options:) 3 levels 30/50/70 1 use per round self heal.

Cripple-(from Uwcpro)must have 3 points in Bash, and 2 points in Trueshot Aura.After attaining those skills (similar to steel skin's setup), the trainee may put 1 out of 1 point into Cripple. This will give him a 5% chance of completely freezing his target for 3 seconds (identical to Entangle but unblockable by necklace). Or crippling his target (running at crawl speed) for 6 seconds. (I like the entangle version myself.)

Assasins boots(from Kevin)- 1/1 same effect as amulet of the cat.

Bag of surprises-.3 levels every 25/20/15 seconds your bag generates either a flash bang/grenade/smoke grenade with a 10 percent chance mabey of pulling out a rock.

Parachute- Enables you to pull out a parachute while falling to slow your decent.

Cloak of the chameleon-5 levels. 10/20/30/40/50 percent chance as spawning as a chameleon.

Siphon ammo- change it so you can have both mana and ammo as skills.

Phantom Ultimate (requires bind): where u may go through the wall 4 5 sec, its like noscope and u go at the speed u r now, 4 instance if u had unholy max and agil max u would go through walls at that speed. blockable by uhh magic.

knife specialist skill/ultimate (if ultimate passive) where your knife str will be upped 2x. also after the first point u will be able 2 take shots and not stop (cept for bash), im saying like u no how if u get shot u go a bit slow 4 a couple sec, u will be invunerable 2 that.

Raise Dead == you die, bring back 3 ppl at random, lvl 45
OR
Sacrificial Lamb == you die, all teammates get 3 sec invunerability lvl 50 Ult, need Healing Wave lvl 5 + Voodoo.

Treacle == replaces serpent ward... no high level cares about the damage, so slow em down instead for 10+ sec, new players would love this, as they wouldn't get gunned down from behind. lvl 1-3, like serpent ward, lvl 4-5 need bash lvl5, stops em dead for 2 sec, but they can still aim, a sound indicates that someone is trapped. (newbies can run or nade...) no resists.

Channel == lvl 3 mend wounds, lvl 10 healing wave, lvl 40 Req; target player on your team takes no dam while you keep him in crosshairs (not long with bash, etc) you take 1/3 dam yourself that is done to him. Could be unbalanced, but putting 10points into healing wave would depower a lvl 40 heaps... or put in code so that the lvl diff makes some change, ie. channel on lvl 40 would do not much, channel on a lvl 1 == lvl 1 god)

The Jedi grab = have a req for high lvl bash & banish to enable it...

Depower = Gives you and target player TMPs (CT 3 1 weap) - no resists (great for getting rid of awp/para), (maybe req lvl 4 impale...).

Not a skilll but... make it so that on a 40+lvl server, to get to lvl 40, u level to 34, then reset to 6 (approx) then level to 40, then reset to 12, then level to 50... etc, so that low levels experiece "server resets" without their pain, also people who play not very often can just get to 34 and be happy...

== new Ult, complete invis for 10 sec, u can't attack or be hit. (would be very confusing for new players, someone just appears from no where... maybe if you blind the person using it, so they step in without pre-aiming, and add a noise to warn.)

Mass TP == lvl 5 banish + TP; randomly TP's all players to where they are aiming (a new player would hate this, but not too bad, could be abused.)

Hex == Skill for campers / assassins
need invis lvl 10 + blink 5, has 3 levels
Does... 9, 18 or 27% percent chance of disabling enemy ults and
does extra {enemy lvl / (5 or 4 or 3) } extra dam / bullet when it works
No gate or TP away, won't hurt low lvl people too much.
Add high level bash to make em stick and mow 'em down.
No resist, no dispell

Glow == skill for scouts / mad rush.
Need Unholy 10 + hex 5, has 3 levels
Does... Enemy effected glows and their outline can be seen through
walls and doors for 15 seconds
Has a 5, 10, 15% chance of working as base
+5% chance of working for every level target has above 29
+10% if target has vamp Aura >5; +10% for thorns/carapace >5
if enemy lvl is > 45 then lasts 30 seconds.
Targeted firmly against tanks and high levels.
No resist, no dispell

Hard Target == Skill for fun... mostly
Ultimate ability, Needs Unholy 7, levitate 5, lasts for 4 seconds
EVERY bullet that hits you Banishes you (ie slap for 0hp).
Maybe add in reduced damage taken....

{insert name here} == Needs Banish level 10, ultimate ability, you die and all enemies within a radius are "gated" back to their spawn, no damage done.

Exhort; Healing wave level 10; ultimate, all friends within a radius take no damage, you take it all for them... 4 second duration, possibly reduce damage taken... good for frontal assaults.

Nother thought, doublejump as a skill. It is a great plugin by itself, would be cool to just implement it like the jedi grab

Anyways, could u put in a skill where you can appear next to or "swap" with your teammate if he/she is in a critical position? Or switching your hp with them?

Going back to my suggestion for implementing ultimate slays as ultimates, instead of 20% I'd put them at 1% chance, or 2. And I'd allow them to be stacked with eachother, breaking that 3 ultimates barrier. So maybe not make them an ultimate? Something else? Different name? The slays im thinking of are from the plugin GHW Slays i believe it's called. There are some like ripping the skeleton out of some1, dropping a rock on their head, exploding their head, crystalizing them, putting them in quicksand, etc. 1% would be more than fair, if it got past that low things would get out of hand and people would be pist. Making it so that it happens about every 10 kills or so sounds right. It's more for those people who are already good at uwc3 and have spare points left over to dick around with and humiliate people.

Left Nut
04-28-2007, 06:18 PM
Totem of healing- I prefer the skill version if it's added.

Sleeping powder- Just want to add that they wont be able to move either for the 5 seconds. Good for 2-1's.

Phantom Ultimate- If it's not hard to have it slay people who get stuck in something slowing the game down then it sounds pretty good to me.

knife specialist skill/ultimate- I like the idea of doing something for knifers but we have to keep knife maps in mind. I know there's ways to turn off the effect of a skill on certain maps like orc nade in speedball which could help with that but I dont knwo the difficulty involved. I'd suggest it as a skill though instead 5 levels (1.2/1.3/1.4/1.6/2) for the damage increase.

Raise Dead- Would make it pretty hard to defend a plant with so many people coming back from the dead as phenoix/vengeance/raise dead would all reset each time that person died.

Sacrificial Lamb- Over powered imo, I'd be pretty pissed if I was winning a 1-4 then all of a sudden then ones left are all invinceable hehe.

Treacle- The changes will make serpant ward alot more viable as a skill again but I do like this as an aditional ward with a reworked name to fit a resist for balance. I'd say cripple for 5 instead of 10 seconds though.

Channel - I like the idea of more team oriented skills but I agree that there would be a balance issue involved especially since the players skilled enough to use this well allready dont need the extra help.

The Jedi grab - Too overpowered imo.

Depower - I like this idea but mabey instead of having it make you lose your hard earned weapon have it remove what ever damage bonus's they have for a set amount of seconds.

Not a skilll but... make it so that on a 40+lvl server, to get to lvl 40, u level to 34, then reset to 6 - It's been suggested before with the last dev team and I still agree with their answer that balancing + server resets are better for the game.

new Ult, complete invis for 10 sec- I like the idea of a full invis in some form but I'd reduce the time to the length it takes to defuse with kit or plant.

Mass TP- I dont think it'll work.

Hex == Skill for campers / assassins- Blink allready blocks ultimates atm 100 percent and having another way to add damage for a high level I think would make it unbalanced.

Glow == Not bad.

Hard Target- Would be damn funny but would destroy some maps as you could make an entire team fall to their deaths because of where they spawn.

{insert name here}- Would make bomb maps pretty hard on ct's to defuse.

Exhort- Again I like the idea of team based skills but no one would choose this one as it's suicide:)

Anyways, could u put in a skill where you can appear next to or "swap" - Again another skill I doubt anyone would use and if you did I would be pissed if it killed me hehe.

Hatz 1 hit kill- Again I'm fine with this aslong as it's a low percentage and has a percentage of 1 hit killing yourself aswell.

Left Nut
04-28-2007, 06:19 PM
Smokey's reply.



I think that for ultimates, you should be allowed to have 10% of max server level ultimates. So for level 40, you could have 4, level 50 you could have 5, etc.

just like with true shot and crit strike, I also think you should only be able to have one syphon skill, else you could take money and amo from some one, may be too powerfull together.

cloak, parachute, assasin, pillar, smite, double jump and the cloud I like :)

we would probably need to get permission from the double jump and parachute authors to incorporate their mods, but since its open source we may be able to get away with just using it, but just to be polite we should ask them if they mind (with credits given of course).

bag of surprises and totem would work better as items imo, but I am open to just about anything.

hex is necessary imo for those bomb maps, but should be changed to make it so that you also cant rescue hosties if hexed to balance out the skill. right now you can only stop bomb plants, which means only CTs would really find it usefull. if we made it so that hex stopped hosties, and maybe even vip escape it would allow more Ts to use it more frequently.

cripple seems like it would be a little to powerfull, especially when you have three points in bash you already stop them for a couple seconds, maybe we should just up the power of bash at higher levels to compensate?

drunken curse could be like drunken stupor from roll the dice? you walk arround throwing bottles (making noise) and speed is reduced by half (or maybe lower, i dunno what the exact is) - again we should get permission for those as well.

souls of the * are pretty ok,

The others I am not too sure I like all that much, in theorey they sound good, but being too powerfull would offset our attempts at balancing.

again, just my .02

also, though I would comment on this part as well since Im at it :p


Quote:


Healing wave: 1-3 / heals stays the same at 2 hp per tick/time between each tick will be (6/5/3)
Old system was 1-5 starting at 6 and reducing by .5 per level to a max of 3.5 seconds.

Levitation: 1-5 / (.75/.70/.65/.60/.4)
Old system was 1-10 /(starting at .8 with a reduction of .05 per level to a max of .30)

Impale: 1-5 / (.10/.13/.16/.19/.3)
Old system was 1-10 starting at .10 +.03 per level to a max of .40.

Siphon mana/ammo: Can select both instead of choosing one. 1-3 / (.05/.07/.12)
Old system was 1-10 starting at .05 - .01 per level to a max of .15.

Spiked Carapace: 1-6 / (.05/.08/.11/.13/.15/.2)
Old system was 1-10 starting at .05 + .02 per level to a max of .25.

Thorns Aura: 1-8 / (.06/.10/.14/.18/.20/.22/.24/.30)
Old system was 1-10 starting at .10 + .03 per level to a max of .40.

Vamperic Aura: 1-8 / (.07/.11/.15/.19/.22/.24/.28/.35)
Old system was 1-10 starting at .10 + .03 per level to a max of .40.

Trueshot Aura: 1-8 / (.06/.08/.10/.13/.15/.17/.19/.25)
Old system was 1-10 starting at .10 +.02 per to a max of .30.

Critical Strike: 1-8 / (.06/.07/.08/.10/.11/.12/.13/.18)
Old system was 1-10 starting at .10 + .01 per level to a max of .20.

Evasion: 1-6 / (.05/.07/.09/.12/.14/.20)
Old system was 1-5 with a max of .22.

Critical Nade: 1-6 / (1.3/.1.4/1.5/1.6/1.8/2.4) Lowered due to the fact the new resist system will change the fact that everyone above level 14 is immune.
Old system was 1-10 starting at 2 times damage + .20 per level to a max of 4 times damage.

Invisibility: 1-8 / (200/192/185/178/171/164/156/130)
Old system was starting at 200 - 5 per level to a max of 155.


I like all of these, but I still think the syphon skills should be one or the other, just like the critical strike / trueshot.

maybe we could also put in a poison or disease bomb (nade) as an alternative to the napalmn grenade? You would only be able to have one or the other just like the other poision/disease skills, but this would allow you to have one disease in nade, and one poison in skill. I dunno if thats balancing or not, or maybe you can only have one posion/disease period, skill or nade. I dunno, just thinking out loud.



Quote:
Blink: 1-6 / (.20/.35/.45/.60/.75/100) I actually added a point to blink because I think it'll be a powerfull
skill especially with all the new ultimates coming, allthough we'll have to limit hwo many blink can disable I believe. That or increase the points for it further, let me know what you think on that when the new skills are presented.
Old system was 1-5



agreed, but should we make it block 100%, or block x% percent of damage?


Quote:
Mend wounds: Up the exp on the higher levels so there's actually a reason to have mroe than 1 point in it.
(1x/1.2x/1.5x)
well, the xp for mend wounds is a cvar, so it can be increased/decreaed very easily. Also if you have more points in it, level 2 can cure disease and poison, and level 3 can also cure fire. If you cure some one of a disease/poison/fire you will get extra XP on top of the heal you provided. This is current behavior. If we put in more skills that allow people to be "infected" or "burned" then maybe this would be more prevelant.

THinking out loud, if we do the smite skill (lightning from above hitting one person) maybe we should check against magic resistance and if they fail they are "charged" and have a certain chance of giving a team mate a static shock if they get too close. Mend level 3 could cure that.


Quote:
Suicide Bomber: I did'nt have the values on this when I wrote this but I think the damage it causes should be decreased. Save all those poor new players that constantly get blown up from full health when they manage to kill a higher level. I'm thinking 60% of it's current damage, again also because not everyone will be completely immune anymore.
not sure on this, but I think the damage is a cvar. Either way I would be ok with this.


Quote:
Hex: 1-6 / (.05/.07/.08/.11/.14/.20)
Old system was 1-10 starting at .05 + .02 per level to a max of .25.

Bash: 1-6 / (.07/.11/.15/.19/.23/.30)
Old system was 1-10 starting at .10 +.03 per level to a max of .40.

Banish: 1-6 / (.04/.05/.06/.08/.10/.15)
Old system was 1-10 starting at .06 + .01 per level to a max of .16.

Carrion Beatles: 1-6 / (.07/.11/.15/.19/.23/.30)
Old system was 1-10 starting at .10 + .03 per level to a max of .40.

Shadow Strike: 1-6 / (.07/.11/.15/.19/.23/.30)
Old system was 1-10 starting at .10 + .03 per level to a max of .40.
Sounds good to me.


Quote:

Abilities: Remove Dexterity and inteligance bonus's to be reworked

I am ok with reworking intelligence, but if you remove dex, what would you put in its place? I know dex only does evasion, but what if it did other things additively like intelligence did, but only not for evasion. Evasion is already kind of powerfull by itself. In the old RPG games, dexterity also helps you avoid attacks, run faster, be a little more knimble, etc, maybe we could make the thief skills require some level of dex to use? I dunno, Im not sure I want to get rid of it, but perhaps just re-work it like the intelligence.


Quote:

Resists: Changing Divine to Holy, obviosly cant really say much more than I allready have other than to promise that each resist will be equally usefull depending on your play style.
Maybe I am just kind of retarded - and I applogize if you said this somewhere already, but what is it going to do/block?

Left Nut
04-28-2007, 06:20 PM
And lastly my last reply hehe.

Holy/Arcane would replace magic splitting up the fact that all the heavy skills are blocked by one resist atm. Then with the new skills we could play with names ect to make them fit into the 6 resists so it's an even split.

The hex skill in that thread was a name Dark gave to a new skill not the one allready ingame.

Your thoughts on different nade effects like napalm is exactly what I was thinking towards for evening out the resists and adding a little variaty. Similar skills but just different enough that you have a reason to choose one over the other to suit. It's what I was thinking with pillar and smite and was going to throw some more like those out there but figured I'd wait to see what the balance looks like after the skills are talked about first so I know where to concentrate the effort.

I love the charged idea.

For blink I think for 6 points it should be 100 percent but I think we should just make sure we choose which ultimates instead of making it all ultimates for balancing.

For dex that's exactly along the lines of what I was thinking. If we keep intel as is we should lower some of the amounts it adds probably as I dont think I can come up with enough to fill 2 abilities worth. But I was thinking change Dex to be wisdom and have it something like this.

This is just off the top of my head as I hav'nt put alot of time into it yet.

11-Your hard studies have allowed you to learn one extra ultimate.
12-Your hard studies have allowed you to learn one extra ultimate.
13-You have learned to harness the power of fire thus raising damage done by fire ultimates.
14-Through your studies you've learned to make your body flow like water thus reducing the chance of bash by half.
I'm out of ideas now but you get the idea. I'm not sure if it's something we should do but I do think it would make abilities alot more interesting.

Hehe I guess I should move these over to the reg forums now and get the ball rolling.

And after further thought I agree on the siphon's 1 or the other.

Smokey
04-28-2007, 06:46 PM
wierd that it took out my Quotes and just wrote the word instead, I'll go edit that so that it improves the readability a bit.

maybe we should make it so you can have both syphon skills, just like when you have both crit strike and true shot some times it will backfire on you and give your money and your bullets to teh other guy :p

LOL now that would be a good laugh

Thanks for clarifying the resist part, I never fully understood it was a replacement for magic being split in two - I feel retarded now, but at least I understand what you meant :)

also the hex, i was a little confused by that one, must have missed that post haha

I like where your going with the dex, but I think we have to be carefull, if we make it too powerfull everyone will have it, and then its still an even playing field, so why have it kinda thing.

I think it should be enticing to the point where some people will use it, but at the same time not enticing enough where everyone will want to have it.

Since strength, agility and constitution are all just "gimmes" that are an additive to the previous (health, speed, regen) having another to split what you want between int and dex may be good, could just prove to be as necessary for game play as dex was, which I dunno if thats what we want, but it also could turn out quite well too. Im conflicted.

Left Nut
04-28-2007, 08:18 PM
That would be pretty neat with the siphon hehe. Yea I know it's hard creating a new ability that's usefull but not too usefull and then balanced lol. I think it's worth the effort though atleast brainstorming wise as no matter what we come up with it'll be better than just adding % to evasion imo.

I think we could have mabey 3 of them go to raising number of ultimates as it looks like we'll have a bunch of new ones. But split up a bit not all in a row like I put them. We could also have some have something to do with ultimate timers aswell, all things I think should'nt really effect balance too much but would be worth having to enough people. Plus there's still the new skills that could be tied into intel and wisdom.

Smokey
04-28-2007, 08:37 PM
i think if they are more ultimates tehy should be the last two instead of the first two.

Then we keep the max ultimates at 3 and allow people to have up to 5. Then we create like 5 new ultimates or something to make it so that everyone doesnt have the same ultimates.

Left Nut
04-28-2007, 09:08 PM
Agreed completely.

ice man
04-29-2007, 08:38 PM
Well how about a skill that allows you to plant the bomb faster than the 5 or 6 seconds it takes? Same with defuse. I have seen it where you can plant while moving around, maybe a skill that incorperates that as well?

Darkwing
04-30-2007, 03:55 AM
Just a quick note;
Hard Target -- When You are hit; You get bashed and go bouncing. Does not affect the opposition (apart from making it harder for them to aim). I am pretty certain that this skill would be certain death to actually have without some sort of compensation... Hence a skill for fun :)

DW. :)

Smokey
04-30-2007, 07:48 AM
yeah..... I dont think thats gunna happen :p

Left Nut
05-01-2007, 08:22 PM
Rl is what it is and mine just got extremly busy, even more so than I thought it was going to. It has'nt changed my commitment obviously but you'll have to wait till each sunday for me to trim/comment and repost the skills threads. Ofcourse that also means you'll have even more chances to post your ideas/critques before each trim.

GJ so far everyone and thank you.

Smokey
05-01-2007, 09:49 PM
gl w rl :)

Left Nut
05-02-2007, 08:00 PM
Hehe thx I actually have time to type why. I got a sweet job doing layout for the curtain walls of a 30 story apartment building being built on Cordova in Vancouver BC. They're way behind on the site so my week mon-saterday is get up at 4:30am and get home sometime after 7:00 PM. Massive hours doing something really fun. I'm a carpenters apprentice so doing layout is a BIG deal and very hard to get experience at, allthough I'm ofcourse doing it with a journeyman hehe.

Smokey
05-02-2007, 08:04 PM
still sounds like a good career oportunity. congrats, and good luck man!

Left Nut
05-02-2007, 08:13 PM
Thx:) I'm really excited about it allthough my girlfirend is VERY much not excited about my 0 free time 6 days a week hehe.

Smokey
05-02-2007, 09:29 PM
just like a woman. bitch when you dont do anything and got nothing, and then bitch when you got shit to do to get the shit she bitches about in the first place :p

Left Nut
05-06-2007, 03:02 PM
I'll let the thread go another week before I weed it down as there's not really enough to warrant it yet imo. So if you have any opinions on skills that you absolutley love or dislike start adding them.

Left Nut
05-13-2007, 12:07 AM
Current cut list:

Raise Dead
Sacrificial Lamb
Channel
The Jedi grab
Not a skill but..
Mass TP
Hex == Skill for campers / assassins
Hard Target
{insert name here}
Exhort
Anyways, could u put in a skill where you can appear next to or "swap"
Siphon ammo- as being used with mana
Totem of healing
Cripple

If you want to fight for these skills just post why. They're on this list atm because of the fact the only feedback on them was weighted towards them being cut. The current approved list and mabey lists will follow in acouple of days after everyone has had a chance to post their 2 cents on this list or add to it. Afterwards I'll start a new thread again with the ones still in the running to continue the process.

slmclarengt
05-13-2007, 11:00 AM
Current cut list:

Raise Dead
Sacrificial Lamb
Channel
The Jedi grab
Not a skill but..
Mass TP
Hex == Skill for campers / assassins
Hard Target
{insert name here}
Exhort
Anyways, could u put in a skill where you can appear next to or "swap"
Siphon ammo- as being used with mana
Totem of healing
Cripple

If you want to fight for these skills just post why. They're on this list atm because of the fact the only feedback on them was weighted towards them being cut. The current approved list and mabey lists will follow in acouple of days after everyone has had a chance to post their 2 cents on this list or add to it. Afterwards I'll start a new thread again with the ones still in the running to continue the process.



I want to fight to ensure Hex stays as an ability, forgive me if I don't understand why Hex is listed, but I'd like it to remain an ability. Also, I'd like to fend for siphon ammo (although to NOT be stacked with mana) and totem of healing so you can get one large boost of health. Plus, I have another idea - a healing station as a skill - you get the skill and it's an ultimate to plant a healing station which lets off a healing wave in a given radius (settable by cvar) so that players within the area are healed even when the player dies who planted it.

Slmclarengt

P.S. I should hopefully be getting SOME time soon to code the shopmenu3, I'm still confused because of it's layout, but I can probably figure it out.

Left Nut
05-13-2007, 03:33 PM
The hex mentioned there is'nt the current hex so dont worry about it:) Siphon ammo is on the list for exactly what you stated to not be stacked not to be removed. I like totem of healing as the skill not the ultimate so am defenitly willing to have it stay for discussion, I dont think it's a bad thing having it as both an item and a skill like mask/vamp ect.

slmclarengt
05-14-2007, 04:18 PM
Actually I agree, I don't think it should be an ultimate or even a skill - ONLY an item.

Slmclarengt

Smokey
05-14-2007, 05:17 PM
I can go either way.

Left Nut
05-14-2007, 07:01 PM
As you can tell I'm easy either way on it aswell as there's alot of other things to be excited about.